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057 Nutrition with Michelle Reeves

057 Nutrition with Michelle Reeves

By Jurmaine Health

On this podcast episode, find out what Michelle does. She has vast experience in working with fighters and bodybuilders.

Today, every ingredient has been demonised and so has every diet trend. Find out what Michelle thinks about those diet trends.

Do you have longevity mindset or do you want to lose weight in the next 12 hours?

“No one knows how to eat anymore”.

Let us know what you think or if you have any questions!


My biggest passion out of it all is actually getting people back to eating from a whole food realm and not being scared of certain foods because we have an entire industry or industries that have demonized so many foods for so long, that no one knows how to eat anymore.

MICHELLE [25:46]

I have to teach them to trust me that I’m not going to make them put on weight.

MICHELLE [28:41]

I was the worst because I came from you don’t waste food. So if there’s a quarter sandwich leftover, I’d be the one who ate so if there’s a couple of biscuits left over, wouldn’t get chopped out. I’d be the person that gets chopped out during my stomach. So I deal with a lot of that to a lot of moms who just picked up a snacking habit but it can be any one because, again, we have a teaspoon of something or one biscuit, we’re talking about things of the same size, a 50 cent piece we go, that doesn’t matter. But it does matter. All of it matters, every single bit of it counts.

Michelle Reeves is a nutritionist and dietitian who does bodybuilding as well. Since 2017, she has worked closely with Sam Greco, a decorated professional fighter, to empower people and change their lives.

She can be found on https://michellereeves.com.au/

Michelle Reeves recommends a couple of books – 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson and Mind Over Matter.

Episode 057 : Nutrition with Michelle Reeves

Podcast brought to you by Jurmaine Health

Welcome to our JURMAINE HEALTH podcast where the Center for brain and body improvement and our team believes that everyone should live their best life in the best body and with their best brain.

SHERMAIN [00:15]

Hello everyone. Today we have on the show Michelle Reeves. She is a nutritionist and dietitian, sports nutrition and you can find her at MICHELLEreeves.com.au and she has kindly very, very kindly. Everyone is very kind has been very kind to us, and donated her time to and so quite a number of questions we have regarding the general population for dieting and weight loss or weight gain. And also for athletes. She sees fighters and some footballers and she does bodybuilding as well. So let's see what kind of educational information we can have from her today. Michelle, would you like to introduce yourself, please?


Good morning.

So a little bit of background on me and where I come from and how I got into it. Okay, so I've probably the industry itself in terms of nutrition, so with sports nutrition without very specifics, nutrition itself has been a long standing passion. I used to work many, many years ago within kind of fruit and veg industry actually. And one of my jobs was to try and help increase the consumption of fruit and vegetable back then, and I did a lot of cross promotions and worked through some stuff, the Cancer Council and I really got an insight in terms of, I suppose fruits and vegetables and what they do for us and how much they're not disregarded but I suppose like anything, we kind of take them for granted. And I learned a lot of properties and a lot of things that were obviously very beneficial.

Fast forward. I kind of always had that background. I was interested in food as medicine. And that kind of stuff. right up until the last six years where I've been working for myself. I spent six years educating myself every single year and the last one was being credited as a sports nutrition. That's what introduced me to nutrition. My biggest passion out of it all is actually getting people back to eating from a whole food realm and not being scared of certain foods because we have an entire industry or industries that have demonized so many foods for so long, that no one knows how to eat anymore. For me, it's about even with my athletes. I've got the crossover with industry.

So whether it's, you know, athletes in football, whether it's fighting, whether it's motocross, triathlons, and then of course, obviously the general population. For me, the biggest passion is the fact of putting my head down at night time knowing I've actually increased the value in someone's life, getting them to eat better, sleep better, move better, live life better for their families doing all that kind of stuff as a all round point of view, not just everything is reactionary. "Oh! I better cut my food out! This is bad!" This is all the bingeing and bad mentalities that come along with setting yourself up for dieting, or that we're in a permanent diet culture. So for me, it's about overall, trying to get balance back in people's lives. It's a pretty good summary of a lot of things that we want to talk about today.

What are some of the biggest challenges that come along with the diet culture?

The diet culture gives us everything that we're to be scared of. Unfortunately, you know, we say all you gotta do is look at the newspaper. What is told today is the golden goose is gonna help you get to where you want to go. In five months from now we'll be demonized and we're the worst thing that you can do. We've had carbs, demonized eggs, demonized flour, demonized milk, demonized meat, it does not matter where you go. Every single thing has been told just about that. This is no good. This is no good. This is no good. So then what happens in diet culture is everybody's like, why can't I eat this and I can't eat that. So I'm pretty much just going to eat cardboard. You get people who then jump in there like right and he loses five kilos, they try and strip everything else out because, well, I'm only allowed to eat boiled chicken and green vegetables because it comes, you know, a lot of the whole bodybuilding history. So I can only eat that. And then they wonder why Three weeks later, they can't keep off because I can't stand the look of it anymore. And then they start going bingeing, then they that way that they just did lose. They've now just put that on and they put on a bit more because they haven't been able to curb the bingeing. So then they turn around, they go, well, that diet didn't work. So there must be something wrong with the diet. Now I'm going to go to this one, and they'll try something else for another couple of weeks, or might be four weeks. "Now that didn't work. I felt bloated." It's this "and there's always something to blame" rather than changing. I thought about how they see it so mindset education, thinking about longevity in what they're doing rather than everything it's going to be now. Everything we sold to everything is now


so that the moment they are on a diet, 24 hours later they'll go to the cheat or fret at that weight right?


That means where someone's getting on the scales and it says I've eaten two good meals today.

What's wrong with the scale? No, no, no skinny yet.


That is so true.


Exactly what I hear all the time.


And that's so funny because it's like for us we do bodywork, we help people recover from injuries and they go like, I've got half an hour to an hour with you. I'm not fixed. We go like, well, how long has this been? Exactly? Yeah, this is like yesterday or five years ago.

Is that all? Well, it was yesterday. Do you have a competition now? When is your competition? There's a timing, there's a, there's this timing discrepancy that I have in your mind. And sometimes that I think that prevents a lot of cases from being more successful than they can actually be. I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your comment about no one knows how to eat any more. What does that look like?


I think what has tended to happen because of what I would call nutritional strategies, right? So I might, let's say I might give someone a time restricted window. So intermittent fasting became a really big thing, but most people didn't go and read all the background on this is that five different methods when it comes to intermittent fasting and kind of the background and the reason for it? For me, everything becomes strategy versus most people will take it on as a one solution. So it's got to be That way, and only that way, and it must be only that way that works rather than, for me, I kind of teach foundation stuff.

And so right, these are all the foods that you need to be eating from. And then there's a bit of flexibility and then everything else is a strategy. If we've hit a plateau or you want to change something, or for whatever reason something's not working, then we go, right, let's look at it this way, we might change it and things. In other words, there's always variables that you can keep manipulating. But what can happen is, like I said, everything else just becomes one. So they just go it's only that way and as a solution rather than just having it as just a strategy.


So there are five kinds of intermittent fasting ways. Or are there more?


Well there's probably more but like there is technically intermittent fasting you've got lean gains, which is 16 eight, there's eight stop eight, which is the spread pylon which is 24 hour fast, and then back on and then so two to two In 24 hours, so that's different again, technically, although some would say it's intermittent fasting, sometimes not. There's an argument as to which. Yeah, because you know, you'll get one that says no, actually it comes from here we will find out everything going. So there's five, two, then there's 24. So there's all these different, they're different methods. At the end of the day, if you restrict a window, it's a time restricted window,


So it doesn't really matter, as long as there's a window of restricted timeframes. And do you find that which population reacts better or worse or no different? It's the general population that is trying to get on a diet or a board type of athletes, or do they react differently?


Well, you could almost say two different types because you definitely obviously general population, definitely have diet culture or a diet mentality. 100% But there can be just as many athletes that will go in with two sets fighters, they'll go for fight camp only, which is still technically a dieting mentality, because they're only doing what they need to, to get them from A to B, rather than monitor a cycle of people who are looking after right throughout the year. So they might fight three or four times a year, they might fight 10 12 times a year, it just depends what they're doing.

And for those guys, I always say to them, we're not doing this just for cut for fight care. We want longevity if you want to stay healthy, if you want to keep the performance at its best. start diving in, step off your weight just to make weight, go and fight and then you go out you binge. And then they start the cycle all over again. And each time they wake up, it gets harder and harder to wake up them because they're doing all of those things rather than take away the diet mentality and say this is actually just how I live. This is part of my normal. This is just how I ate the amount of people that and it doesn't matter whether it's athletes or Gen pop.

There's a real fear and guilt that goes with food, good and bad, and self loathing that kind of goes with all of that. And that's very heavily steeped in that diet mentality from everyone I've ever dealt with. So I might have somebody who they'll send me a message and say, I was so bad on the weekend, I didn't stick to my diet. And I went out and had this and I go hang on a second. Tell me what was inherently bad about food. Well, I had a diner, Okay, tell me what's inherently bad about the diner was no good for you. And, and you start peeling people back they got it's a donut. Okay? If we say from a perspective, is there anything nutrient wise in a donut? No, there's not. Psychologically however you give someone let them have a donut when everything else is really good. Then it works really well. You eat the donut you feel good and the way you go you stop obsessing about it.

So it's always about perspective. But for me if if even my guys in fight camp, they've either got chocolate milk or they've got ice cream or they've got something so that they're not in diet mentality it's about having some flexibility. It's what you do the majority of the time not what you do on the minority so again trying to take away that diet culture and go there isn't a super special fat macro that came with the donut. It's the same three macros whether you take all foods I still break down at the same three things. Yes, they have different impacts on the body, but they still break down to the same three things,

SHERMAIN [11:40]

Well, I'm laughing behind the scenes. I'm trying to stifle my giggles because it's true. It is true.

MICHELLE [11:47]

All the fat theory that comes down at nighttime, the fat theory that comes with fruit, like honestly, it's just yeah.

SHERMAIN [11:53]

So how much of your impatience must you stifle when it happens?

MICHELLE [12:01]

Every now and then I'll get on a rant and I'd like to get up on one. That's it. And I'll get out on Facebook on Instagram. Okay, in fact, this is my opinion. And Off I go. I think at the start, I was so just, I had someone say to me, they weren't going to eat carrots, because it's too much sugar in it. It's going to make them fat, but they were going yeah. And he said, "I was like, are they actually serious or are they like?", I think, I think there's really, no, I think I actually was waiting for him to say I'm joking, but they were dead set serious. And I reckon it was one of those moments that I just sat there and went, "Wow! As a public. We're in trouble because everything has caught up and that goes back to that demonizing." Everything's got a bad rap. Exactly. So no, these days I'm almost given up because I've been dealing with this. So long. It's just normal to me now I almost I'm almost surprised when someone comes to me and they've got this really super good well rounded view on food and life and no emotional attachment to food, and they can organize themselves and do all that sort of stuff. I'm probably more taken back by that these days

SHERMAIN [13:21]

That says a lot.

MICHELLE [13:23]

It does. Yeah.

SHERMAIN [13:24]

It's unfortunate, but it's unfortunate that is happening. And there are two questions, one will be probably easier than the other. The first one is this, how long do you think it will take for someone who is just starting out with you and has an average mentality not it doesn't swing either way for them to really understand what their body needs in terms of nutrition, eating habits and maybe supplemental habits to from the start to a space where you don't have to feel your hand holding them anymore. And checking in is okay.

MICHELLE [14:07]

That's really... it's a funny question because again, it still goes back to the person I've had some people where within that three months because I always work with people for a minimum of 12 weeks, right through to the year out. For some people that three months is enough, they've got it because I'm all about teaching people for me, rather than sitting here and say they're right, just do this, this and this.

I teach them what I'm doing and why I'm doing it because I want them to be able to finish working with me that should never ever have to go pick up a diet that never get loved or caught back into that cycle or they need to go and buy a supplement to fix their issues. I want to have taught them enough that they can look at it and go, don't buy. Just stay on the side of the fence. You've got the tools and away you go. Some people can do that. In those first three months. I've got a girl who did an incredible job. She's just she just kept going And she's in an incredible place now. So you get someone like that, who applied it, listen to it. She's flexible. She went out for dinner. She went around holidays, she did all the math. And she was doing sports. She was doing jujitsu, well balanced between everything. Absolutely just nailed it.

On the flip side of that, I could still have somebody with like six or seven weeks, it's not so much if they don't understand it. They just won't apply it because they're always too tired today or couldn't be bothered, or, or no, I got home a bit late. So I just said there's always a reason and as long as they stand in their own way, then how long's a piece of string until they get out of their own way and get out of their head.

SHERMAIN [15:47]

So it's funny how you mentioned how they get in their own way. Because I frequently speak about this in recovery. It's easy to recover a situation or if it's what looks like a complex situation is just in time, sometimes personality prevents them from being successful. And the emotions behind that downfall or that obstacle or the inability to follow through is huge. So when you spoke about impatience, anger, guilt, it's almost like we as a general population like to blame ourselves often. Do you think that's the case?

MICHELLE [16:37]

I actually wrote a post a thesis a couple years ago now saying, you know, most people don't realize if they could say that no one will ever be a bigger critic than they are of themselves. We are the harshest critic that we could ever I remember saying to my girls, when I used to run PT group, and I remember I turned around to my girls one day, and I went Right. I put everybody on the spot and I went, Okay, give me three things that's good about you. Ah, again, no, time's up next. And I went, the last person, obviously, because she had a longer time, there's five of them. She come up with some stuff, I shouldn't have been the last two. And it was aesthetic. I was like, I've got this or about that. And I went now, number one, everybody struggled, because it's not naturally like if you if you really get to talk to people, nuts and bolts about how they see themselves, then you start if they were really, really honest, then they start coming out with the stuff that really helps them or their downfalls or their shortcomings or what they don't think they're good enough for. They're there.

We driven that, to the assumption that part of us or what's good about ourselves automatically refers to aesthetic, because everything is driven in social media. Everything is driven about what you look like. Who's got the best booty on Instagram, who's got this who's got that? Right? No one if it compares, even, I would get up in the morning and all three engineering and I'm like, Okay, I will start unfollowing because my social page is just filled with this perfection. The things that I know might take someone 1000 photos to get that one good photo, they've got makeup artists, and they've got the right lighting, and they've got every damn thing that also might do a lot of them up. They look amazing, but they also have a lot of added help that goes along with it. So it's like sculpting for us. There's a bit of everything that goes on. So we have that pressure, probably more now than we ever did of what we should be living up to. So all of a sudden, you take all of those things and the critic that's within starts getting harsher and harsher and harsher.

And so, I then said to my girls, I went right if you could probably not be very nostalgic but also if you can take your head off and sit next to your body and turn around and look at your body and say Now, how do you feel about how I talk to you? What do you reckon it would say? Yeah, and they all just sat there and looked at me. And I went, yeah, not very nice. Is it? Because you don't speak very nice if you're being objective? And then the next question I usually say to them is, okay, so for those who got girls, would you let your daughter speak to herself like that? or better still? Would you say those things that you say though to yourself, would you say them to your daughter, and easily like, Hello, like, so why are you any different? Why is it okay for you, but not okay for them. So you have to be able to teach your kids because they're all going to do it too. This is what they're measuring themselves against. So we do self sabotage and self esteem and perception and all of that goes into it in a really, really big way.

SHERMAIN [19:49]

And it manifests in so much in so many different ways. It manifests itself physically, how we move how we speak, how we carry ourselves.

MICHELLE [19:58]


SHERMAIN [19:59]

It manifests itself in a way that we eat

Eating, I have an irrational fear of not having enough food. I do. My guess is because of a scarcity mentality. It didn't use to happen. But it happened when I was a uni student. Yes, because I was for uni student, right for uni student and all I had was tuna can fish and rice and I was so unwilling to spend on that doughnut or ice cream or whatever. Now whenever you I want to eat, I will eat whatever I want to eat. So you blow up but then, for me it was a different cycle. Went into a different cycle you went into a because traditionally I don't eat very much. However, what happened and after that cycle of student poverty cycle student poverty eating cycle into a little bit more abundance cycle and into a stress cycle. My brain immune loop just went crazy. Right? So that's my cycle. And I'm and I've been mentioning to you several times throughout the years I'm going to come and see you. I'm going to have this sorted because I've tested several things where I've tested precision nutrition. I've tested, someone gave me the blood group diet thing and a lot of different sets of different kinds of diet. Bone broth diet, celery, juicing, celery juice diet.

All right, okay. My colleague always sees I say to her, she eats an apocalyptic diet.

Right, and then she goes, why were you on? She just texted me the other day. Why when you're on the you know, doing the fasting and you call it fasting and for me you call it the apocalyptic diet

Because I'm round was my reply.

MICHELLE [22:13]

Going back to that, going back to scarcity mentality because I had that, yeah, right I had that guy out getting because I was at home and I was very young and all of that kind of stuff. And you also tuna and Rice, I think mine was corn chips and cheese because that's all I could afford. So that's I just have that. So I did that for a very long time. And then when I actually got some money, and I remember walking into supermarket, I was like, oh, there's like a kid in the candy store. Or I was like I can have one of them, one of them, one of them, one of them. And I did that for a very, very long time. And it took a long time for me to actually work that out that I did that and then you're right. You add on. There's a certain amount that still comes back to that restrictive eating, and then it turns into binging because it's in abundance. And then it goes back and forth. And then stress and one of the biggest things that I said about too, because somebody can come in.

And just through conversation, sometimes I just could take one look at them and go, Okay, so you can essentially put all the right food sources together, but you're eating to stop how you feel like you're trying to block it, you're trying to shove it down. So you then start just piling food on top. And it's usually in that moment where somebody will sit there and start crying, well they just sit there and stop because no one's actually made them stop long enough to even consider that or they kind of know it, but they would never admit it. And that's the other thing.

Most people, no one wants to admit these things. Wait. Now I say everybody's emotionally constipated these days. Because everybody's scared, they're gonna get burned and I want to be vulnerable anymore. So they don't really want to share stuff. Things get out. We've got social media everywhere. So you know, you could say a sentence and it gets misconstrued that's how social media is these days unfortunately so you know, everybody's very, very tentative about what they say these days. The one part of my job that I absolutely love is to sit down and actually to talk to someone and sometimes giving them the space to kind of go through that side of it, and then actually talk through it so they can really see it because it's in those moments. That's where you get someone to change. So if we talk about how long does it take someone to change? Well, sometimes it's Halloween until they actually have that moment where they are really honest with themselves, and they are so accountable, and so open about where they're at.

And it's in that moment that you can then get them to move forward. If they're not accountable, and they don't know the story, and the cycle and know that there's stuff there even if they don't necessarily want to deal with it. I'm not anybody's psychologist. I just try and give them space to consider. I challenge how they might actually see something and give them some things to ponder and they can go away and work it out or go and speak to someone if they need to. But that is a really, really big part of it. So whether it's scarcity emotional eating trauma, all of those things. Essentially, at the end of the day, everybody knows that they're supposed to eat their fruits and vegetables and lean meats. We just make every damn excuse not to eat them.

SHERMAIN [25:13]

I really love what you just mentioned, they will not eat their food, but they'll eat five pieces of chocolate yet. That's so true.

MICHELLE [25:21]

That's to feel better.

Today, I need to feel better. I'm going to eat something that's going to make me feel better. It lasts for five minutes, you get calorie regret, and then you go f***** I might just keep going.

SHERMAIN [25:29]

That's correct. And then it just goes down a rabbit hole, which population will have a little bit more adverse reaction to the start of a new form of diet or not diet? Well, nutritional coaching?

MICHELLE [25:46]

Well, they both can because you can find an athlete who's not eating. I have to teach them to trust me that I'm not going to make them put on weight. And it depends how long they fight me on it. And I've had someone I worked with for about six to seven months. And I knew through this first five to ten minutes they kind of bullshitted but I knew they were bullshitting to evade and that doesn't add up and it worked out right, then as they kind of got through, and I'm like, it's not, if I'm gonna make you fat, then I'm not gonna last in my job very long. And I like, you're gonna have to trust me that I'm not going to do that, but I need you to eat. That's true. So by the time we actually got right through their second weight category , they just made way and their body changed so dramatically.

So again, it goes back to sometimes they can actually be the hardest because it's getting them to trust you. If this is driven on a weight base sports, they are terrified of those numbers and what they think it is is that everything is about that number that they've got to hit. So that can actually be just as hard as getting someone in who's got lifelong habits, even where I started myself. Have a cycle that I come out of actually being able to own what I was doing in the first place, right because it's a bit like I said before that cognitive dissonance where you can kind of switch off to it and go exactly the same thing. I could have maybe put rice down on my plate and gone Oh shit that's probably enough and put some aside but I never had the same filter when it come to eating chocolate where it was just you know, it's in the head, it's fascinating because I feel like oh, same are no one ate a banana this time because you know, now it's got a bit in it, but still going back and eating up like a chocolate all the the bag of bullets or whatever it may be. But with no, never, ever, that question pops into your head over chocolate.

And I think for me, that's probably one of the things that I've learned to do right from the start, or I say to people, because I always get people to spend a week taking all their photos and I do it for a few reasons. But a lot of it actually comes down to accountability and making sure if they can't take a photo if they can't earn that in the first Place, then chances are they're going to take quite a bit more time anyway. All right. So they have to do their food photos. And also how perfect the ones that they send me because what you tell us straight away so I'm just scared that I'm going to judge them. I might only get two meals and I'm like,” is that really all? you are 136 kilos. Is that really all you ate? Because I think not. So where's the rest that we're usually sending they'll go quite a go. I don't give a shit what you ate. I just need to say it if you can't own it. If you can't be honest to me. Then you're gonna stand in your own way you have survived because so many people again snacking work as a mom.

MICHELLE [28:41]

I was the worst because I came from a "you don't waste food upbringing". So if there's a quarter sandwich leftover, I'd be the one who ate so if there's a couple of biscuits left over I'd be the person that gets chopped out during my stomach. So I deal with a lot of that to a lot of moms who just picked up a snacking habit but it can be any one because, again, we have a teaspoon of something or one biscuit, we're talking about things of the same size, a 50 cent piece we go, that doesn't matter. But it does matter. All of it matters, every single bit of it counts. And you start to realize people actually eat way more than what they actually know that they're eating. By the time you start counting your steps for the liquid. Anything that's liquid is again, usually with liquid, we drink it, you go, Oh, I'm not full of nothing. It doesn't register. That's correct. But if you've had a juice or someone who's had a bit of alcohol, you can still be looking at two three and 400 calories depending on what you've just had with her.

SHERMAIN [29:38]

It's a little bit like people who have got gastric sleeves, gastric surgery, right? I have seen quite a number of acquaintances who have had them and they don't lose anything. Nothing. So I'm looking at what you're eating. So they will have a milkshake and along with extra sugar Sure, like, Well, you know, that's probably why you're not losing the weight that you want to lose, you can't

MICHELLE [30:09]

Liquid still weigh more calories than what I anticipate

SHERMAIN [30:13]

That's correct. I think that to be able to really have that fulfillment within our bodies, it's almost like we have to really examine ourselves first, right? And what we are willing to be authentic about, and that sometimes is really, really hard

MICHELLE [30:33]

Very, very hard.

SHERMAIN [30:35]

For example, some of the patients that come through patients, clients that come through to us, some of them says, Hey, Shermain, I've got this weird hip pain, but it's near this lower right corner and usually is the large intestines for you guys who want to know

So do you know that it is between these timelines?

Yep, I know what that is.

Oh, fantastic.

So do you want to do something about it?

No Shermain, I'll carry it to the grave with me.

So, as long as you know, it's fine. It's okay. I'm not here to judge, right.

So the next time they come in, I was like, so how's your pain, but I don't have any more.

MICHELLE [31:30]

I can say that about stress is I can say to people, although you might not think you're stressed, you can track metrics and go actually your body says something completely different. True, might be your version of I'm not stressed, I'm good. I'm coping. I've got this. Thanks very much, fine thanks. That all that says is you just have the ability to shove it down. Other coping mechanisms, but again, if you talk about you know, so for your modalities, and for through, essentially, they're all the things that can inhibit. On another scale is what that journey actually looks like for some, because I've said if it was just as simple as a X amount of calories and away you go, Well, there would never be a problem.

SHERMAIN [32:17]


MICHELLE [32:18]

Metabolic precision nutrition was one of the first things I did, and in one of the sentences was nutrition is never about the food I was like I really didn't quite understand at first, I was like we just thought that food was just self control. And the more I dealt with people, the more I went, well, one day I went, it's not about the food, it's about social, it's about cultural, it's about emotional, it's backgrounds, it's all of it. It's the whole lot. You know, I've had a few athletes, there was absolutely zero emotional attachment to food. They are literally they just get up they eat it all that they eat everything and they just don't miss. And they never have an issue they crave anything. There you know, performance is amazing. But they track their sleep they sleep well they make sure the balance the balance of stress, so they might go and do for it or they go do yoga, are they gonna have a massage? So they do all of those other things to make sure it's very, very well balanced. Versus as soon as I can hear you know, straightaway when someone's got an emotional attachment to food,

SHERMAIN [33:33]

What is that like? How do they sound?

MICHELLE [33:36]

Some of them you can see it by how they put their plates down. So they might have like, perfect, perfect and then all of a sudden just tends to shoot and they'll be either a pattern so the Friday Saturday night which is when most people say falls apart over the weekend. So it'll get to Friday, Saturday night and they've just done amazing through the week and all of a sudden you start seeing hamburgers and chocolate and alcohol and all the feel good foods, the things that they want to make themselves feel better. And then they get to Monday fit like the gym you walk into a gym on Monday it's packed on or you know coming to a Friday because I better go workout because I'm going to go shoot tonight. So you know, I've got to do this trade off. But you get to Monday and then they start trying to tie it up and then just stay forever in the sock and then they wonder why they can't get anywhere. But even in the stress side of it. You'll see you'll hear them say I have had a bad day. It's so soothing, self soothing. So yeah, when I have bad diet, I just I really needed that one. And you hear as soon as you hear I needed that. There's that stress one day is that it's

SHERMAIN [34:45]

I do a lot of self-soothing like for example, sometimes when I go, I am frustrated, I'm fed up and it is a bit of a rebellion, mentally feeling my own body. So I've got this whole dialogue happening in my brain.

So how does metabolism come into play for all of this?

MICHELLE [35:41]

You know what, we need to start talking about metabolism. The one thing that happens is quite often people start using this as an excuse. For metabolism, I've, it's my hormones. It's everything but the fact is you're eating way more than what you need to and you should be moving way more. You're sitting on your back too much. There's still the first two. Yes, there is always time to consider that if someone's got thyroid issues, or they've got underlying medical issues, yes, or someone's been on certain medications, all of those things can start to play havoc in a really, really big way. But if you took, say the majority of people, they need to not worry about what their metabolism is doing, because their body's doing just a good job without them, you know, having to get bogged down in another thing. Our body is incredibly savvy. Most people don't give it credit for what it's actually doing day to day. It's adaptive. It's currently always adapting to your environment, what you're doing, whether it's hot or whether it's cold or whether you've moved more whether you've moved less. Did you eat more salty food? Did you drink more water? Did you drink more alcohol, it is constantly trying to adapt to everything that you throw at it, because its job is to keep the body in homeostasis. It wants to keep balance all the time. It's trying to catch up and make sure that all the chemical reactions and everything are happening as they should be.

SHERMAIN [37:15]


MICHELLE [37:16]

what tends to happen is you might have things that can impact somebody. And again, I wouldn't call it metabolism, you might say they're adapted. And I've spoken about this before. You might have somebody who's come from dieting history, so they've tried 10 different diets and they've flipped, say, somebody's maintenance level was 2000 calories, and then to get them to lose weight. So you brought it down to say 1700 calories, if they continue to 700 1700 calories. If that's all it took, well, then obviously they would just be permanently losing fat and then you would get point we'd be like, holy shit, they've got no fat left. So that's obviously not just the answer, the funny part of the answer because again, if we go back to how our body wants to be it's adaptive and wants to catch up. If you stayed at that 700-800 calories for too long, there comes a point where your body says, Hey, this is now my new setpoint. It's caught up and it's made everything operate on those 1700 calories. We don't need to lose anything anymore. We could. So this has now become a new set point. And then they go, Oh, shit, well, that's not working. So now I've got my food for more. So now I need to go to 1300. Yes, okay, I'm losing weight again, until it stops because they've either stayed there too long, too scared to eat, don't want to build a food backup. They've had no kind of diet breaks and bringing their calories back up to maintenance and that kind of thing. So now we're down to 30 and 50. Now we're training six days a week. Now we're starting to feel like shit, and we go, but why?

SHERMAIN [38:50]

Of course it will feel like shit.

MICHELLE [38:51]

Right. But again, a lot of people don't take that into account.

SHERMAIN [38:56]

I have some athletes and their eating habits are all over the place.

MICHELLE [39:21]

It depends what again, depends what their background is. Yeah, if they're coming from really good, well-based background it does show. But again, if you've got somebody who's got really poor eating habits, you want them for as long as you can get them into good routine and actually building up their body and that's what's gonna say. So if we, if we took metabolism out for a minute, and go, just focused on the actual strategies that are in there, and getting people stop being so scared to eat, because even that person that's now down to 30 and 50 we're not staying there. And that's, I get the menu all the time. I've had people coming in on 900 800 600 calories.

SHERMAIN [40:00]

That's unsustainable

MICHELLE [40:01]

And they're starving, they wonder why they're in pain all the time their hair's falling out, like, we need to actually get some food into you. And there's such a fear because it goes against the grain. That to lose weight, you actually sometimes need to eat more. I've had people where I've put 500-600 extra calories in a day and dropped two kilos by the end of the week. The body actually gets you're getting what it needs and all of a sudden a lot of the other stuff goes away you get people that you know, this is the other the other side of the chronic dieting mentality is people don't understand why they get a slump in the afternoon is so damn tired. They've got brain fog, they can't think properly. They're shitty. Hmm, there's so much more grumpy with what they would normally be, though long term that I end up wanting to go out anywhere and then it's this constant. My body doesn't look like it did when I was that way. So then they start hiding there's this becomes this whole big problem. And then you'll get something's up with my metabolism. So you actually Just made it adapted. Yes, you chronically kept dying down and down and down and down and you never took a break. You never backed off your training. You never drove up your food. Now you're in a shitstorm.

SHERMAIN [41:12]

Yes. And that happens to them when they eat a little bit more, increase your calorie count through like, I don't know, maybe by 100 calories a day. Suddenly they blow up suddenly,

MICHELLE [41:24]

I've seen that before where I've said, one of my girls in particular, I swear to God, she looked at a potato and she put on three kilos. And then I've had other people where I had a guy who I put him on 600 extra calories a day and he was leaner by the end of the week. Wow.

SPEAKER 3 [41:45]

So what happens to those cases?

MICHELLE [41:48]

It's still dependent to the person and being male, female. Females always body's going to kick out harder than a man's does. Yes. So it's kind of relative. It's relative to everything. It's not just one specific thing is kind of the whole story that goes along with it. This person is a little bit older, they had a really chronic history of dieting and all that kind of stuff. So it took a long time, it actually took about six or seven, actually nearly eight months of us going back and forth of them stamping their feet guy, my wife's not going anywhere to make on it's not meant to we're trying to get more food into you don't worry about that right now. And I took them from like 900 calories up to about 1800. And they still weren't exactly the same.

SHERMAIN [42:32]

Well, that's quite a story.

MICHELLE [42:34]

The arguments that I had to have in that eight months about getting more food in is quite phenomenal because like I said, it goes against the grain. Everybody says, Well, if I want to lose weight, it's all about cutting out all about what can I rip out of it.

SHERMAIN [42:49]

I understand completely what you're saying. Well, I compare it to my own profession. So sometimes when I train people, I remind them over and over that they have got to slow down. So it's really kind of counter intuitive because you slow down you got to stay still. And they go,”Why?!”

MICHELLE [43:08]

But why do I want to be told that? No, we we've got this is like a bit of a warrior thing that the harder you go the more you train you know the have most more hardcore you make it the stronger you are

SHERMAIN [43:20]


MICHELLE [43:21]

No, you are not

try going the other way around

SHERMAIN [43:24]

That's correct

MICHELLE [43:25]

The more you actually meet that you actually need to slow down. Take a breath. Look after yourself.

Shermain [43:32]

That's strong. That's coping, that's more balanced and that's how you get longevity.

SHERMAIN [43:35]

I think we will need to have more courage to slow down. So speaking of that, what some of the events that you will be up in, you know, getting into this year I think the I know that every year you've got a lot of things on your plate. However, break it down for our listeners. What where can they find you if they want to hear more for the public events and just events in general.

MICHELLE [44:04]

So this year, the first quarter is mainly about the fighters. There's a lot of amateur shows, pro shows and of course UFC going on. So I've got a few guys for UFC in New Zealand. And then of course, the amateur and pro shows over here, my son's filing our shares IMF. I've heard that he's done very well. And he, he's pushing for us. He finished top eight in the world last year. So now he's pursuing that again this year. So most of my stuff is out on Instagram. So if they just go to michelle.reeves.com.au on Instagram, because that's where I'll usually put out people. So whether it's their transformations, people are making weeds so they can see one of the biggest things that I actually go back to my athletes and I push this to all of them and say, you guys have a lot of people following you. You are actually setting the tone for everybody's up and coming. Please put your food up, start showing people because I'm always pushing my people to eat. If you get on my page, you'll see how big some of the meals that these guys are eating. So whether it's athletes or whether it's General Population, about how to actually fill up their plates and things like that.

I say to them, you guys need to put your food out and actually start showing people that they don't need to be afraid to eat, they actually do need to eat, especially when they're in a performance board. So definitely Instagram because that's the main one. I've got Facebook, but like I said, most stuff actually goes across Instagram. We're still fixing up some stuff on my website. So if anybody wants to get in touch just come there's a booking form through Instagram, or of course, I can just send a direct message anyway. In terms of events, I won't be everything. Everything that I'm doing for the rest of this quarter will mainly be online, and then through the rest of the year. I'll update as we go.

SHERMAIN [45:52]

Right. Of course, that's how our calendar does go. I understand it. Yes, it can be crazy. If you could share his work, two books you really enjoy, and why you enjoy them.

MICHELLE [46:06]

One of them is 12 Rules for Life. It's called for by Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson is a psychologist that with a theological point of view, and I just find his stance on life and values and approach and having courage to kind of stand your ground, that kind of thing. So I think he's a very, very good speaker.

And the other one was, I'm still reading it is Mind Over Matter. Even Alexander, who's a neuroscientist who very much went through when he says about, you know, we have people that look after for life and death experiences and he always used to say no, like, I want a fair fee, but you know, it's kind of just memories, bit of this bit of that whatever, up until he actually got really sick himself. And he goes through his story. So you have one book and then he's mind over matter was talking about the fact And the reason I picked up his book in particular being that neuroscientists is mind over matter, unfortunately can sometimes type the very “Whoo Whoo”side and they will turn it into alternatives which I don’t care much for. I like to know that it's got a bit of grounding in it. And not that anecdotal doesn't work. But I like to see a bit more depth to it. Mind over matter, absolutely blew me away. Because if we were to talk about environment and how much our environment actually matters, I think I said to you before, they gave this beautiful example of music, against drops of water, and actually the shape that it changed as a result of the music, and that I think it was like opera gave almost like this beautiful flower imprint into this water and then they put heavy metal and it made it completely chaotic and scattered. And the premise being obviously how much our body is made up of water.

So if you were talking about the energy level and again, energy levels have been taken way way further than I would ever delve to it, but told me on an energy level about people around us and what's actually going on any few. Everything matters, everything that the people that you surround yourself with, how they view life, where you're going, what you're doing, I get it again, people who want to lose weight and then they've got people around them. I just have these just eat that you don't need to worry about that. Rather than being supportive, so supportive for environment about what we surround ourselves with how we talk to ourselves, how our whole outlooks at whole mind and how the fact is that you can change your outlook and inevitably change everything that goes on around you as a result of it but it gives all these beautiful stories of just a different people we've worked with and just from a science based point of view, things that you can do

SHERMAIN [49:00]

So there is this book called by Dr. Emoto. Dr. Emoto is Japanese, right? Emoto is Japanese, and it's the emotions of water. I think I think that's a title. Well, if I'm not wrong, if you guys want to go Google, Dr. Emoto, shapes of water, shift of emotion, something like that, you will get tons of information that talks about emotions and how it affects the shapes of water. So it's, I think that that's the genesis of how, how it has happened. And that's probably another topic for another day, because it's, it's a huge topic.

MICHELLE [49:40]

It's fascinating. I absolutely love that sort of stuff, especially when I can see it, because you can talk to me about energy and I can sit here and go, yes. But if you can show me and show me the actual impact, especially the cellular level on these things, so the guys are It's incredible. And like I said, that's where you really start realize everything that we surround ourselves with everything that we say everything that comes out of our mouth. It all matters.

SHERMAIN [50:06]

Yes. Absolutely. So MICHELLE, thank you again for your time.

MICHELLE [50:11]

You're very welcome. Thank you for having me. Good to see you. Good to see you.

Walking in the door and you go Oh my God, why do you wait till you look …

SHERMAIN [50:21]

Thank you so much. And I hope you guys learned a lot from MICHELLE's

Work and information. And I like to leave you guys with that. Thank you guys.

Thank you for listening, if you enjoyed our podcast, please feel free to connect with us on Instagram at JURMAINE HEALTH Body all one word. We always welcome feedback and ideas too. We are happy to answer any questions, just reach out to us at our website, www.jurmaineheath.com.au. Tune in weekly for the most relevant information on how to live your best life with your best brain and in your best body!

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