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027 Cervical spine part 3

027 Cervical spine part 3

By Jurmaine Health

This episode, we talk about the types of headaches. Are you a desk jockey? You may need a shoulder police to press your shoulders down. Migraine is commonly seen in females and believed to have hormonal link. Find out why on this podcast! We can help at Jurmaine Health. For example, we sometimes do lymphatic drainage to treat headaches caused by sinusitis.

Jackie [03:51]
We’re talking about desk jockeys, mostly. Yeah, and you know, the phone posture where you’re constantly head forward, looking down because that associates with muscle tightness in the head, neck, jaw, which leads to the headache.

Jackie [06:16]
So for those people, especially for those who sit at the desk, I don’t know about you guys when I started working on something like subconsciously, sometimes I catch myself with my shoulders up to my ears. It is just a matter of like, taking notice and being more self aware and just, you know, relax, take a deep breath.

Jackie [06:41]
It’s good to have someone on like shoulder monitoring in your office taking turns.​

Dr Jacqueline Swiatlowski is a qualified chiropractor with over 6 years of experience. She has worked in a range of different environments including roles within the allied health industry, professional sporting clubs as well as in her own private practice. With a Master of Clinical Chiropractic from RMIT University as well as a number of additional qualifications, including Active Release Technique (ART), Animal Flow and a Certificate III & IV in Fitness from the Australian Institute of Personal Trainers, Jacqueline is an expert in movement restoration and chiropractic care. In the past she has worked alongside local athletes, including players from the Western Eagles Soccer Club, Melbourne City Soccer Club and the Coburg Lions Football Club. In her role at Jurmaine Health, Jacqueline’s main focus is treating patients and looking after their health. “Jacqueline is also a TRE provider now and can offer TRE treatments to patients.”

Episode 027: Cervical spine part 3

Podcast brought to you by Jurmaine Health

JACKIE [00:00]

This is Jurmaine Health, the center to help you achieve wellness in both your brain and body. We endeavor to encourage cross communication between health professionals for your health and well being. We bring you topics on neuro psychology, neuro behavior, neuro musculoskeletal, neuro gastro, movement is well being, metabolism and microbiome, which are also some of the services that we provide. So today's podcast is a third in our head and neck series, we'll be talking to you about the most common types of headaches that we see, as well as a few less commonly known ones. I've Cera Lai with me today, so say hello, Cera.

CERA [00:39]

Hello.

JACKIE [00:40]

So guys, if you haven't noticed, Cera hasn't been featuring in the latest podcasts, as she's recently had spinal surgery. So before we continue, Cera has kindly offered to tell us a little bit about her experience. Cera, the mic is all yours.

CERA [00:55]

Hello, everyone. Good to be back.

Do we speak about my back during one of the Back Pain?

JACKIE [01:01]

Quite possibly when we had we talked about spondy. Yeah, it was Shermain that may have mentioned you.

CERA [01:07]

So basically my upper body my spine is falling off my pelvis pretty much. So what.

JACKIE [01:15]

It was �

CERA [01:16]

Now is secured with titanium screws and rods. I've got six of them just been walking around like a block of wood. Won't be seeing me for a while. Maybe a month or so more to go. Okay. Any Netflix recommendations? DM me.

JACKIE [01:37]

I mean, if we started doing your rehab yet?

CERA [1:40]

Not yet a surgeon review first week of April.

Yeah, once he's lifted restrictions. So currently, I'm told to take a to go lie down after every 30 minutes of sitting, standing or walking, whatever, which is very annoying, yeah, to get anything done or to do anything.

JACKIE [02:09]

How long do you have to lie down for?

CERA [02:11]

He didn't say so I, depending on how I feel. Yeah, these days, I'm actually feeling quite good. So I've actually pushed it out a bit. Um, but I'm still quite diligent with letting my back rest, even though I don't feel like I need it.

JACKIE [02:25]

Just to be safe. Yeah. Which is a good idea, better to not push it because ideally, we want you back at work. So we've got a physio back.

CERA [02:36]

So yeah that's me, right now.

JACKIE [02:39]

Okay, guys, before we get moving on with our podcast for today, got a quick disclaimer. None of what we're discussing today is to be taken as medical advice. And if you have any concerns, please do seek help from your health care practitioner. So let's get cracking.

We've got a few that are the most common ones, and especially the ones that we see. We're going with the most commonly seen headache in general, is the tension headache. For the most part, most people have experienced a tension headache, or at least will experience a tension headache at least once in their lives. The best way to think of the tension headache or the best way to describe is a headband type of feeling like a tight pressure all the way around your forehead, all the way extending backwards. Sometimes there's tightness in your jaw, and in your neck as well. And for the most part, the reason it's called tension headaches. It's stress-related, can be sometimes hormonal, but for the most part, it's either physical or emotional stress. So a lot of people that have clearly stressors in their lives is going to be the main thing, but the other one is any people that have sustained positions.

CERA [03:51]

We're talking about desk jockeys, mostly. Yeah, and you know, the phone posture where you're constantly head forward, looking down because that associates with muscle tightness in the head, neck, jaw, which leads to the headache. This is one headache we can help with obviously. Yep. Assess your posture, release muscles that needs to be released.

JACKIE [04:16]

Retraining adjust the spine Yes. Yeah as a straight chiro.

Jokes guys. We're not that kind of chiros. Yeah, um, the other one that we always have to make sure about with people with tension headaches is that we do address the stress part for them. So whether this is going through exercise, like we've been doing with a few of you guys practicing the TRE thing, or whether it's just addressing what may be your stressor, and trying to see if we can monitor, like maintain it or decrease the stress levels that you're all feeling. So include this.

This may include sometime just picking something that helps you relax like, making sure you do it. Continue like not continuously but at least once a day for a said amount of time, just to help you unwind. That's also one of the main things that we also address in tension headaches, always pretty much always going to make sure we cover that one or the shallow breathing. So pretty sure that you guys have been exposed to us picking on most of you for saying you're not breathing, are you breathing, you are not breathing into your belly. This is another reason that we do tend to call it out.

Because if you're breathing through your shoulders, and Cera is just pointing at shoulders. She's not speaking up. She's just preferring to show her shoulders and just point to me. So these are Cera's movements. So you carry all your tension, you're already carrying the tension to begin with all your stresses for the most part, and then trying to breathe up through there you are just adding more stressors so the headache just compounds rather than trying to release. We don't want you guys doing that. And again, if you've got sustained positions at work, it all contributes. And Cera you can definitely pipe up here because I just feel like I've talked to the last four minutes.

CERA [06:16]

So for those people, especially for those who sit at the desk, I don't know about you guys when I started working on something like subconsciously, sometimes I catch myself with my shoulders up to my ears. It is just a matter of like, taking notice and being more self aware and just, you know, relax, take a deep breath.

JACKIE [06:35]

If you have Shermain around she has a tendency to walk up to you and push your shoulder.

CERA [06:41]

It's good to have someone on like shoulder monitoring in your office taking turns.

JACKIE [06:47]

If you've been told by us that you have shoulder that you keep breathing in your shoulders when you're under stress. Yeah, just get you a little maintenance next door to your desk and stuff, and go if you ever see my shoulder go up, come up and push them down. Push them down more, and return the favor.

Moving on guys, we've got what we call another one that's a common one with us, it sort of leads or is similar to the tension one, and it's a cervicogenic. So my God can't even pronounce the word cervicogenic headache. And in this case, it means it's of neck origin of cervical, relates to the cervical spine, so which is pretty much your neck, and genic, which means all the origin. So that's another one that we fairly commonly see. And again, very much related to sustained positions. So as Cera was just saying before desk workers, you've also got a lot of laborers that tend to have sustained position.

Yeah, just like to say painters and electricians very heavily have issues with this. And for the most part, it can become very chronic and very quickly and they experience, they can experience aches and pains all the way up into their head, as well as down to the shoulder. So we're looking at a lot of referred pain. For the most part. Again, it's very similar the treatments are very similar. So it's either addressing the postures, giving exercises and stuff to help strengthen the areas or help release some of the areas so you release the areas of tightness, strengthen the areas that are weak, especially if somebody's got their head continuously backwards, it means for the most part, the front muscles of the neck are going to be weak. Yeah, and the ones at the back are going to be nice and tight. So anytime they try to tilt their head back forwards, it's going to either increase pain for them or it's going to be extremely difficult. So they feel like they're literally trying to pull up a tonne. Because remember your head pretty much most of the time weighs about six to eight kilos just depending on the person. It�s the size of the brain and your bones.

JACKIE [08:57]

I think I've got a heavy head. I know that I've got issues with the cervicogenic now, Shermain's called me out a few times for I tilt backwards. So my suboccipitals get tight. So me going forwards is a tough ask sometimes. So that one I am aware of. But yes, again, similar sort of treatment options, adjustments do help postural change, addressing the posture does help, exercises all that again, you're going to be looking at the occasional heat packs if you really want to. So they overlap, those two tend to overlap fairly significantly.

Occasionally, you do get a little bit of eye pain with the cervicogenic headaches. Again, that's more often than not because of the referral patterns. And the same presents again, a lot of the time with reduced motion of the neck, and predominantly that is, again because of the sustained posture that most people hold. So whatever posture they are pretty much holding their neck in is the one that their neck will be happily to go into, but anything in the opposite directions it will be restricted. Yeah. And it will be limited for the most part. Occasionally cervicogenic overlaps with torticollis type of symptoms as well.

CERA [10:23]

Wry neck?

JACKIE [10:23]

Yeah wryneck again, slightly differently because it goes with the wrynecks are more related to the sternocleidomastoid muscle your SCM. I'm thinking of origin to insertion guys, I'm calling out a few different areas.

CERA [10:39]

It's the big muscle at the front of your neck.

JACKIE [10:41]

The one that looks like it runs diagonally across your neck. That's the one that's usually related to, that's usually aggravated in wryneck or torticollis. But again, the symptoms have a tendency to present very similarly.

CERA [10:55]

I used to get them, yes torticollis. During very big exams.

JACKIE [11:06]

Most people, I've seen it recently. And the same with cervicogenic that both of them again together is air cond. Where they may have got air conds directly on them and muscle spasm. And then the other one is having, so they've had a shower gone to bed but had the window open. Makes morning most of the time unable to move their necks, same sort of thing.

Yeah, muscle spasms and that's it. They are the ones that get you get the quickest buck granted, these things pass with time. So the wrynecks, torticollis, whichever way you want to call it. They're a self limiting condition. So they calm down by themselves. A lot of the time tension headaches are the same, cervicogenic is just depend on what the problem what the cause of it is. If it's a one for the most part, okay, well, it's not a self limiting. It doesn't need to be addressed. If it's a muscular issue, sometimes it will calm down by itself.

CERA [12:03]

Can it be discogenic? So disc related? Yep.

JACKIE [12:07]

Anything any of the tissues relating to the neck so it can mean ligaments, joints, nerves, arteries, all of them can be potential culprits. We don't want the arteries involved in this thing. The cervical nerve roots occasionally get trapped in the muscles so more often than not it's a more of a muscular issue than anything else. Unless yes, of course the disc or, it�s causing, or if it's there's arthritic changes in the spine, then yes, again, they can be causing catching on the nerves or pressing on them for the most part, and then what we more often see it's a straight sort of thing. Yeah.

And this is one of those, this is the headache. Tension headaches and cervicogenic headaches. If you're a straight chiro, this is pretty much your bread and butter. So these are the ones that most people most chiros will pretty much be addressing with just the adjustment and that's it. Hang on. Alright, sweet. This will be fine. And it is. It's relatively well documented that yeah, this is one of those ones that does relieve with an adjustment.

Here at Jurmaine Health, you guys all know that this is not what we just do. But it's one of those ones that a lot of chiros will just do an adjustment and just go yep, the rest will clear. Moving on from there guys. We've got another common one, which you all should all probably heard of, it�s called the migraine. So this one's more commonly seen in females, and it's believed to have a hormonal link. Not saying that males don't get it. We do have a few males here in the clinic actually that do have migraines and do suffer from migraines. So again, not one of those ones that we can rule out and just go yep, guys you don't have you don't suffer from migraines, so it's gonna be something else. Yeah. But it's thought to have a hormonal link. And the reason they say this is because women, it's usually seen in the younger years. So when they're pre menopausal, usually women once they've gone past menopause, it tends to either decrease or stop entirely. So this one is the research. They believe that there's a hormonal link to it.

CERA [14:28]

Mm hmm. And can be quite debilitating. I know people who have to like just take time off work hide in a darkroom. Just to wait it out. Pretty much.

JACKIE [14:39]

Yep. And I see it here as well. There's usually two types of forms. There's ones with an aura and there's another one that's without an aura. So aura is sort of, it's something that comes before the main symptoms. And it's usually they'll see like blinking lights in front of them or they'll see something like moving patterns and or colors or anything of the sort. Although we just get a vibe coming through, that's what they talk about with an aura not everyone has them. The aura is the one that give a heads up. So some people that know that they have the aura migraines will automatically start taking precautionary measures so that it doesn't or they'll start trying to take anything or know what usually helps to calm it down before it hits the big symptoms.

So for the most like Cera said, with the debilitating, we're talking about nausea. Here we're talking about sometimes vomiting, sensitivity to lights and sounds, is a big one. So like Cera said, go hiding out into a dark room. That's a very common thing that most people will do, especially if they're going through that migraine stage where it's actually already hit. It can last from for hours if not a couple of days. Again, this is where it becomes very debilitating, especially if you need to work like Cera said, it's very difficult to try and work, especially in pretty much in any field. You got bright lights almost everywhere. And if you can't avoid noise.

CERA [16:16]

Yeah. The worst thing is they don't really know for sure what actually triggers a migraine, people speculate, you know stress, food related changes to the weather, lack of sleep, they're all really just different stresses really, to our body. Yeah.

JACKIE [16:35]

And that's usually again, one of the most common treatments to it. So again, it's the stress part that we address. Same as what we do here. So okay, we remove we help them for the most part, remove any of the muscular tension, and any of the other as much as we can in your muscular tension that we can from the body. That's what we assist with as much as we can. And then we try occasionally if the people don't know what their stresses are like. Their triggers I should say, rather than their, we try to go through what they may have done that particular day or what they may have eaten that day, or the days prior to it to see we can find a trigger.

Like that's a common one for my people that suffer from migraines. So like common triggers with migraines that are known. Again, we said stress, so certain foods we're talking here. I know peanut butter is a stressor for a lot of people, red wine's a stressor for a lot of people. Dark chocolate is a stressor for a lot of people yeah.

CERA [17:30]

All the good stuff.

JACKIE [17:34]

Yes, I know, I suffer from migraines because I've been in a lot of trouble or I'd be just going alright, I give up I'm gonna have a migraine for the rest of my life. Just continue on like yep, in your dark cave, the hideout and granted in my unit, all the windows are always closed so it does look like a dark cave, at least those are the common stressors.

Again, lack of food can sometimes do it and lack of sleep and a lot of the time, unfortunately with the migraine headaches, it's continuous like it's a vicious cycle because as much as you want to sleep, sometimes the pain of the headache doesn't allow you to sleep. So those ones, that sort of becomes a vicious cycle. For the most part, most people that suffer from migraine headaches are actually on medication of some sort. I'm not sure if it's a daily medication.

CERA [18:26]

No idea.

JACKIE [18:27]

Yes, so sometimes guys we're going to be honest we don't know sometimes the medications like I've got an idea of some of the meds that are used for migraine headaches. But everyone's different. Some people use meds some people don't. And again, some like Cera and I just both said, we're not sure if there are meds that are taken on a daily basis to prevent or if they're meds taken and whenever the whenever they start feeling a migraine coming on or a migraine on.

JACKIE [18:55]

That's as much as we can tell you about migraines, or at least that we know or what we see. Next one is not one that we see. Or at least I haven't seen one yet. I don't think I want to see one from what we learned about it in uni. It is a rare headache. But it's an important one as well, because it's a vicious one. It's a cluster headache, more commonly seen in men, and by far more commonly seen in men, usually about 20 to 40 years of age, but at least it is one that's it comes in clusters. So it occurs once or several times every day, for a few weeks to a few months. So that's why they call them clusters, but it's one of those headaches that when we were taught about it in uni, it's one of those ones that you wanted to pretty much bash your head against the wall. That's how excruciating, yeah, that's how excruciating it is for them. For the most part. For the males, it's usually one sided, and it can typically last between about 15 minutes to 3 hours. So imagine that pain centered pretty much around one side of your head.

CERA [20:01]

We don't know why.

JACKIE [20:03]

I can't remember off the top of my head why the cluster headaches occur. I just remember it being just remember being taught as though headache that most men occasionally suffer from, the one that they just want to bash their head up against the wall. Just because of the severity of it. Again it's a rare one and I we haven't seen all these I haven't seen here in JH. I don't think Shermain has either but it's just one to be aware of it as well. It's not necessarily a medical emergency, but it's one of those ones that it will feel it because of its severity. It can strike a worry in someone Yeah. We're looking for your normal sinusitis one is a very common one for Melbourne, especially Melbourne. I'm going to say yeah, these days with all their.

CERA [20:54]

Head cold kind of headache.

JACKIE [20:55]

Not just the head cold because sinusitis is more related to allergies and stuff as well. So it can feel all stuffy through your head, can actually start wearing you down as well. So this is one of those headaches that started wearing people down, makes them feel tired and makes their whole head feel heavy. For the most part, it's more frontal-related, so not so much at the back of the head. So tension headaches was often more seen front and back. Cervicogenic again, seemed more front and back. Migraines are the same, for the most part one sided to the eye part clusters are again, more sided at one side to the head of the head with the eye. Sinusitis can be both sides, but it's front.

CERA [21:37]

It's the sinuses. Yeah, the front. Yes.

JACKIE [21:41]

That's pretty much it. Um, a lot of the time it is if you move your head. So if you move your head backwards, it's more comfortable. But if you move your head forward, that's where people feel a lot more of the pain on because of that rush and that feeling. So you do see a lot of people go alright something's wrong, I'm feeling stuffy or they'll have blocked noses. A lot of the time that's the sinusitis hitting. Unfortunately, this is one of those ones that occasionally does need antibiotics. Because it can become an infection. And then yeah, it can lead to. ideally yeah you want to use. Yeah, a lot of people do have a surgically addressed to either enlarge the areas.

CERA [22:25]

So that they can clear the mucus essentially from the sinuses. Yeah.

JACKIE [22:31]

We do occasionally little lymphatic drainage on the sinuses to help relieve some of the symptoms. The other thing that we often recommend would be like your cell line sprays to try and yep to try and clear all the fluid that you put in through one nose, and you have it goes all the way through all the sinuses and comes out your other nose. It's a really weird feeling. I have done it, and it's really weird. Especially if you do it properly. I was struggling for the first part when you do it properly.

JACKIE [23:10]

I've done it a few times it does help, it does help but it's a very trippy sensation. I also know the sinusitis to be very careful, my sinuses when they're very bad. So I do suffer from sinusitis, chronic ones. For the most part, I leave it and try to deal with it with the sprays and stuff like that, or the drainage. But occasionally it does flare up and when I know it's bad is when I'm trying to walk and it's hitting my tooth. So my sinus fluid sometimes hits the root of my teeth. And I have my freakout. So going, oh, do I need a root canal? I had a couple, I had a freakout a few years ago where I was I got to a point where I was googling my symptoms. So it was coming up with root canal and it was coming up with sinusitis. It was sinusitis looking like the better one, but root canal was at the back of my mind just because of the severity. I don't do dentists guys. I don't do doctors but I don't do dentists either. So you know, it's bad when I go to a dentist, I booked in with a dentist and the dentist took x rays and said no, everything's fine. You need to go see GP for antibiotics. I was like, I hate you. I could have saved myself one, some money and I could have saved myself going to a dentist.

JACKIE [24:29]

So yes, it can get sometimes chronic and can actually hit the nerve roots as well. So if you sometimes have a blocked nose, and then you start having tooth pain, yeah, that can be a sign of sinusitis as well. They're the big ones that we most commonly see. And now we've got the one that we just want you to more be aware of, which is what we call the thunderclap headache.

This is a warning sign that you start looking out for, this is the headache that you've never had before, or at least not severity wise or it's changed in pattern for you, whether it's an increase in the severity or frequency, or it's of sudden onset, and it's progressively worsening. So we're talking relatively fast, progressively worsening.

This is the one that, this is a warning sign. This is something that I say to get checked out. A GP at the bare minimum. But this is one that you don't leave lying around. If it's getting, if it's like a headache that you've never had before for severity, and it's just suddenly come on, I will probably recommend ED again, not medical. It's a seek medical help as soon as you can, more or less, but this is the one this is just the warning signs to be very aware of. It's usually related to an aneurysm. The change in the patterns is occasionally referred to, for the tumors, brain tumors is the one they were looking for. But again, aneurysm is the most common one when it comes to the sudden onset, severe onset of pain. But it can also be associated with loss of consciousness. So if you start losing consciousness, that's a medical emergency is no longer a GP situation. This is a please go see. Go seek some help go seek emergency help. And of course if you're having a fever as well, if you're having neck pain and fevers, again, that's emergency.

CERA [26:28]

I think neck pain's the big one for the thunderclap headache. Oh yeah and neck pain as in at the back of your neck.

JACKIE [26:37]

But then again if you got neck pain and fevers, it can also be meningitis. So another one it's another one that you want to be yes, seek medical attention as soon as you can sort of thing. But just the take home message is, the headache that you've never had before or the sudden onset, never had one like this before. Go get yourself checked.

CERA [26:57]

Don't try to sleep it off guys, better be safe than sorry.

JACKIE [27:01]

Pretty much. Guys, that's it with our headaches podcast. So if you like what we're presenting, please give us a thumbs up a like or share it with one other person who you think we may be a help. For those of you who are coaches, dancers or athletes, and may find difficulty with expressing or executing movement patterns. Please do connect with us on our website, www.jurmainehealth.com.au and Jurmaine Health is spelled j u r m a i n e h e a l t h. Or please socialize with us on Facebook, which is Jurmaine Health or Instagram which is Jurmaine Health body. And last but not least, since this podcast is made for you, our clients, patients and fans, please do let us know what else you might like to hear about. And that's it for us today guys. See you.

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