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026 Cervical spine part 2

026 Cervical spine part 2

By Jurmaine Health

What is the Embodied Project about? The Embodied Recovery, The Embodied Athlete and the Embodied Fitness. Find out here, how you can participate! Part 2 of this series is about more examples of neck issues. We check for all signs and symptoms that your bodies present even if you come to us for a specific problem. For example, a patient who came in for a neck issue, our thorough investigation led to a cardiology problem. Wry neck, yes a scarf can save you sometimes! Contact sports, what sort of issues do they normally face? Orthognathic surgery, do you need one?

SHERMAIN [04:57]
Floor is mine? Talking about this all day. It’s got to be more than 20 minutes. We talked about brachial plexus injury. Brachial plexus injury happens when somebody crashes into your shoulder. Shoulder, neck area. So pretty much the collarbone area.

SHERMAIN [06:00]
That’s right. Or pins or needles or as if you know it’s very tight like a tight sock that is wrapped around your arm, your entire arm. Those are the feelings that come with brachial plexus issues.

JACKIE [17:06]
Let’s step away from the more sinister ones now, just slightly very rough, extremely common one I’d say. Especially, I want to say especially now that it’s summer season, but it’s pretty much as common in winter as it is in summer. So the one that I’m talking about is what we call a wry neck. Or it’s one of those situations where I went to bed fine, but I woke up the next day and I can’t move my neck situation. ​​

Dr Shermain Wong is a seasoned chiropractor with particular expertise in Sports Medicine and a passion for the benefits of in ‘Active Release Technique™ (an advanced Soft Tissue Technique developed by Chiropractors). She is professionally trained in ART and has a Masters in Clinical Chiropractic from RMIT University. Dr Wong has provided chiropractic and movement rehabilitation services at international sporting competitions, and provided rehabilitation and training for professional dancers, professional football players and professional athletes.

Dr Jacqueline Swiatlowski is a qualified chiropractor with over 6 years of experience. She has worked in a range of different environments including roles within the allied health industry, professional sporting clubs as well as in her own private practice. With a Master of Clinical Chiropractic from RMIT University as well as a number of additional qualifications, including Active Release Technique (ART), Animal Flow and a Certificate III & IV in Fitness from the Australian Institute of Personal Trainers, Jacqueline is an expert in movement restoration and chiropractic care. In the past she has worked alongside local athletes, including players from the Western Eagles Soccer Club, Melbourne City Soccer Club and the Coburg Lions Football Club. In her role at Jurmaine Health, Jacqueline’s main focus is treating patients and looking after their health. “Jacqueline is also a TRE provider now and can offer TRE treatments to patients.”

Episode 026: Cervical spine part 2

Podcast brought to you by Jurmaine Health

JACKIE [00:00]

This is Jurmaine Health, the center to help you achieve wellness in both your brain and body. We endeavor to encourage cross communication between health professionals for your health and well being. We bring you topics on neuro psychology, neuro behavior, neuro musculoskeletal, neuro gastro, the Embodied Project, movement is well being, metabolism and microbiome, which are also some of the services that we provide.

Guys as of this year this year, we have replaced our Movement is Wellbeing service with our upgraded Embodied Project service. So some of you are already privy to this, and have been actively involved, in our Embodied Series including those that recently attended our Embodied Recovery workshop. For everyone else. This is something that we look to do a lot of, as we aim to Embodied Jurmaine Health. As part of the Embodied Project, we have as mentioned, the Embodied Recovery, as well as Embodied Athlete and Embodied Fitness. Today's podcast is the second in our head and neck series. We'll be talking to you about the most common presenting cervical spine / neck injury issues / injuries that we see. And I have Dr. Shermain Wong with me today. Say hello Shermain.

SHERMAIN [01:09]

Hello.

JACKIE [01:10]

So guys, once again, before we get into the nitty gritty of today's podcast, we're going to go on a slight tangent and give you a quick rundown of the Embodied Project and its recent Embodied Recovery workshop. Shermain, take the floor, all yours.

SHERMAIN [01:25]

Hi guys. So the Embodied Project houses three different services. The first one we have been running since December is the Embodied Athlete it's a monthly webinar where we keep all the athletes accountable to their recovery, as well as their performance for the year. So we started out with a calendar year and we started planning out for everyone on that. So the misunderstanding currently that is happening right out there now is that the Embodied Athlete is just for athletes only. At a high level, that means anywhere from advanced to elite levels, that is a little bit incorrect. It is for what it is for is for everyone who, anyone from social athletes to competitive athletes, and then the elite or the professional athletes if you want, if so to speak, we have about 15 people in there now. So we have it on a monthly basis. So that's quite good, a good response. We want to grow that or hope to grow that and this is a free service for all our clients all clients of Jurmaine Health so and as a result of that, we thought that we want to give back something to them in a more, or you guys rather, in a more structured format. It happens once a month and it happens on at 3pm on a webinar. That way you will be able to access it from your phone or from your laptop.

So that's the Embodied Athlete, the Embodied Fitness would be in beta testing that we are about to launch. And we will be inviting quite a number of you to say Hey, will you help us out in getting this service right and what we and we will be explaining to you guys in the email, what we are going to do for that.

We just ran the Embodied Recovery workshop in about two weeks ago. And it was a really good result we opened the floor to about 12 people and we had a result of 11 people. So we were quite happy about that. That is a workshop that is run to help people release stress response and tension to the body and for lack of a better description, trauma to the body and mind. So as a result of that, it was quite a good response I thought. And for a small introductory workshop, we got a very, very good feedback and reviews from that. And we would like to see more people participate through that.

Otherwise other than that we have, we are going to develop that, develop this project a bit more and we'll probably talk about it in another episode on a standalone episode in and of itself. This is just part of us updating you on what we are having right now. However, I have not forgotten that we are supposed to speak about neck issues, and Jackie will.

JACKIE [04:44]

You're already talking, so feel free to continue on the first one.

SHERMAIN [04:49]

Jackie will talk about it with me. What do you want to speak about?

JACKIE [04:52]

As I said, pick an issue. The floor is yours still.

SHERMAIN [04:57]

Floor is mine? Talking about this all day. It's got to be more than 20 minutes. We talked about brachial plexus injury. Brachial plexus injury happens when somebody crashes into your shoulder. Shoulder, neck area. So pretty much the collarbone area. And you get, you might feel limp for the time being in a temporary situation, or that after a prolonged period of time if it's not addressed or resolved, you might be able to feel a lot of tingling, numbness, and thoracic outlet like syndromes. So what that means is that paranesthesia changes in temperature in your hands, numb feelings in your hands if you haven't. Some of you might think that it's a heart attack, but it's not. Or the lack of strength that will come through with that too. That's quite common and

JACKIE [05:58]

Electric sensations.

SHERMAIN [06:00]

That's right. Or pins or needles or as if you know it's very tight like a tight sock that is wrapped around your arm, your entire arm. Those are the feelings that come with brachial plexus issues.

JACKIE [06:14]

So usually with that one, that one is a short lived one. Shermain mentioned more about prolonged and how will present, if that sensation or the brachial plexus has been compressed for a longer period of time following that kind of trauma. But normally, before we were just talking about a stinger burner. It's usually severe but it should only last for a few minutes. It's only after that that it becomes progressive issue.

SHERMAIN [06:49]

Progressively chronic issue.

JACKIE [06:51]

And if not addressed relatively soon. You don't want to be on the back burner of that one. As Sherman said, the numbness and tingling or the lack of sensation does escalate. So it can become one of those things that one day you're able to pick up ten kilos the other day you're struggling to pick up a mug. Those are the times and believe it or not, it's usually where people are struggling to pick up 10 kilos they come to see us. It's usually when they struggle to pick up the mug. Most people like to wait on this issue.

SHERMAIN [07:27]

That they wait a bit too long I think with some people well I don't know how long to wait for I think timeframe could be somewhere anywhere from about two weeks or two weeks to four weeks will be a good time to wait.

JACKIE [07:39]

I reckon that if you're getting numbness and tingling down your hands you don't wait two weeks, three weeks, we're being generous here. Ideally if you're starting to feel numbness, lack of sensation, or anything of the sort and you think it's coming from higher up. Something that we can address and pathologically if you're thinking something seems to be going wrong, then come see us.

If you're thinking sinister, go see your GP, let them deal with it. If you're thinking it's something to do with your neck, or anything else, so anyway, or the brachial plexus itself can get caught in a few different areas. So if you're thinking you've pinched the nerve, don't wait 1-2-3-4 weeks to come see us because you're getting... You can feel the numbness and tingling but I can deal with this. Don't wait until you can no longer pick up your mug or your cup of coffee or anything. Come see us preferably before it gets to that point. Usually easier to treat as well.

SHERMAIN [08:33]

So it is true, listen to Jackie.

JACKIE [08:35]

But it's also kinder for you. It means you have to you don't have to truly deal with three or four weeks of something getting progressively worse on you, or you are continuously being zapped into your fingers or into your hands somewhere.

SHERMAIN [08:48]

That is true.

JACKIE [08:49]

Or jaw for that matter actually, sometimes refers upwards as well into the neck. So when we're talking about stingers, this is the part that it's sort of more referring to, it likes to give a stinging zapping sensation somewhere around the neck. Trust me it's really an unpleasant sensation. I had someone zap in my nose once recently. It's not nice and don't wait that long. Please don't wait that long.

But continuing on with that one, I think I'm going to continue on with the disc issues. It's sort of a similar with the mimicking again here because the brachial plexus can be involved well, it's nerve root itself, right at the top with disc issues. So when it comes to a disc issue here, we may be talking about a herniation in itself, and we'll be talking about even just the disc bulging, a minor one. Sometimes a minor one is enough to go into the little, little lateral ones that we call them slightly out to the side, which means where the nerve roots go out through and can compress it through there, which means that you may get symptoms down your hand, forearm anywhere the sort or again slightly into the neck like Shermain just mentioned it before in again this with what Shermain said before about the heart attacks. If it's a disc issue that is pressing on your left side again and it's one of the other ones that's probably about C5 C6 I'd assume that probably. That's yeah C7 at the furthest, not I'm thinking for heart attack though, even down to T1 yeah even. Because of the chest yep sorry my bad, I was going down the arm for how much it will present itself?

Yes, Shermain did. With even T1 and nerve root, that we're talking about the discs, this can actually mimic like she talked about with the stingers and burners for the heart attack this can be exactly the same when it comes to that left side. Because of that sensation, it's going, pain's going down all the way down your arm on the left side, as well as in that tightness into the chest, which might be through T1. It can be like a heart attack, not saying this is again, here I'm saying automatically a disclaimer, I'm not saying this is something you automatically rule out. I'm fine. I'm not having a heart attack. I have a disc issue in my neck. If you're feeling any of the symptoms, especially if you feel something else associated with possible heart attack, do not wait and rule it out as a disc issue and go Yes, we're fine. Again, please go to see your GP don't ignore it as just a cervical disc issue.

SHERMAIN [11:48]

As a case study or a story I would like to share. I have a patient client, and he came in and he said to me, his issue was on left shoulder. It was a no, initially it was a right shoulder issue. And we sorted that right shoulder issue out. And he had no problems with that. And then he said, Oh, Shermain, I've got left shoulder issue now. I said alright, so I checked it, I went through it. And I went like, well, maybe it's just, you know, the general musculoskeletal issue. Anywhere from the trapezius to the supraspinatus to the infraspinatus, the teres major you're talking about the rotator cuff and the rhomboids and serratus, posterior superior so that those are our breathing muscles around the ribs behind on the ribs.

So that was what I thought about at that point in time and that was about as much as I did. And I said to him, saying look, you need to move your arms, your left arm a lot because we just did. We just worked on it quite heavily. By heavily I don't mean hard. I just mean a lot then you have to move yourself ,move your arm a lot so you will be able to recover quite quickly. Usually about what, three to four days before you feel the, you know, you'll be able to move much better. And that's quite common. I didn't hear from him for months and he came in on a late weeknight. That week was a really rough week and because we had many very hard cases that week. He said to me, oh Shermain I had to go to do the GP because I thought that I had a heart attack because I had an achiness down my arm, and I said so I asked him so what do your GP do for you? She said, Oh, I went for a neck xray. So how did it go? He said, Oh, they couldn't find anything. So can you describe for me how the pain in your hand or arm is. They're going to send me for called the like EMG, is it?

JACKIE [14:07]

Yes.

SHERMAIN [14:08]

Yeah. EMG so that electromyographic test. So basically the test was for carpal tunnel and strength and he said to me, Shermain no, I've got strength, strength is not the issue. I've got numbness. I was like okay, this is unusual then. This is unusual did they, if you have got strength and you have got reflexes which I tested for, so that means it's not a nerve issue because when a person says to your GP. Say hey, I go to a chiropractor, then they would naturally assume that as a result of an adjustment to the neck. A person will have altered sensations into the arm, or a disc issue or any of those things and that could be one of the reasons why, but I've never adjusted this patient's neck. It was just mainly arm because that was what he had. I went on to take his pulse. And I went on to check the pulse near the carotid artery. Apparently he has had a chest X ray before he said that he didn't have those chest xrays before. And I asked him how does he sleep at night. The relevance of how he sleeps at night is because I want to know if this person has got apnea or not. And that would also collapse the windpipe. So and that is you know, anterior to the neck and those structures will be affected. Eventually he said to me, no Shermain, they have not xray'ed my chest and he and I have a sinuses. I went to two surgeries before for my deviated septum. However, this deviated septum is that after the first surgery, it was bad but now it's worse I can't sleep at night. Alright, what about I send you for a chest xray then. Long story short, this chest X ray came out with some artery related issue in the chest. I had to speak to his GP and for the GP to send him to a cardiologist. So guys, if you're coming in with neck issues, we will be checking a lot of signs and symptoms amongst every other thing that you are presenting, not just in your neck, because if you are saying to us, hey, hey, I've got a pain in my arm or in my neck. We will hear you at the same time we will investigate what is going on. And if this artery issue looks like or sounds like a brachial plexus issue, but they are not related, then we have a problem that could have been easily missed. This client is under the care of a cardiologist consultant.

JACKIE [17:06]

Let's step away from the more sinister ones now, just slightly very rough, extremely common one I'd say. Especially, I want to say especially now that it's summer season, but it's pretty much as common in winter as it is in summer. So the one that I'm talking about is what we call a wry neck. Or it's one of those situations where I went to bed fine, but I woke up the next day and I can't move my neck situation.

So we refer to that as a wry neck. And it pretty much is the muscles have seized up or spasm on you. Most of the time it can be something to do with the way that you've slept. So let's say if you are sleeping on your bed the whole time like normally throughout the whole week and then you suddenly slept on a couch. Don't be surprised if you're waking up in exactly the same situation of, oh can't move my neck, suddenly, I can only get this far and then I have to twist the rest of my body. That's where the muscles have spasm whilst been sleeping because you have shorten up in a position that they're not normally shortened or you've lengthened them in a position that they are not normally lengthened and that spasms on you is the best way to describe it.

The other one that is a very common one. And this is the one that I was referring to, as presents commonly in winter and in summer. Predominantly summer is what I referred it to as. But wintertime, is a very common time, arrives is the situational. If you ever got told by your parents, especially your Mum, don't leave the door open or don't leave the window open because of draught. It's just about pretty much we have a situation of don't create a draught is very much real. The neck, your cervical spine and your lumbar spine, so your neck and low back are 2 areas of the spine that very much don't like being exposed to cold, especially the neck itself. Through that C1 to C7 segment we pretty much use the whole crook of your neck doesn't very much like being exposed to cold.

So again, this is the time that the muscle spasm where the neck doesn't like cold blast or whether they're in the case of the summertime, in the case of exposed to air cond for a prolonged period of time. So say you're at work and you've gone to work in the morning, perfectly fine. You've been sitting in front of your computer screen, with the air-cond blasting you from behind for the rest of for the whole day, the next day, and this is a very common occurrence. The next day most people are waking up with in some way, shape, or form unable to move their neck with their neck in a sustained position locked in in one particular area because the muscles they have spasm from the cold that they experienced the day before. Again common in summertime when people have the, say they've had a cold, say they have a shower come out sitting and sitting in the air con, same sort of, same type of situation. Going from hot to cold the body just goes no, spasms up. And the next day again wakes up cold.

When it comes to the wakes up spasm I should say, cold and spasm. winter time, goes in the sense of when you're outside and you get a cold blast, is what I was referring to or like I did say with the draught, where we did say parental use to tell us when we were little or it's very common in European families being told not to leave XYZ open because you'll create a draught and then you'll get sick. This is where it actually stands true. Creating that draught, especially in the sense of the wind blowing or any air blowing onto directly onto your neck, cold air. Yes, this is where it will create that sense of spasm. And the next day you will struggle to be moving your neck around.

Again usually it's locked in in one particular movement, you'll be fine to move in one direction, no problem, you'll be relatively fine most times to go back to neutral. So looking dead ahead, but moving to one of the other sides, whichever side is not, whichever side is the one that's not functioning for you, you will struggle to move to that. Whether we're talking about tilting your head, so ear to shoulder, or whether we're talking about turning your head, the two most commonly affected directions ranges of motion that the wryneck usually hits when it spasms up. Again, the easiest way to look after this is keep yourself out of situations where your neck's gonna end up cold.

Most of the time I say this to people in summer, that as much as it pains me to say, if you're sitting directly under an air con, try and have a scarf around your neck. In winter time, it's a little easier and most people do have a scarf around their neck, or have a hoodie or something that's covering that up preventing it from being hit by a blast of chilled air. But otherwise for treatment purposes, most of the time, it just requires relieving, releasing the muscles that have spasm up. Most people get relief pretty much within that one session. Don't you think Shermain, most of the time for you as well?

SHERMAIN [22:40]

I had a wry neck before torticollis it's called. It was exam triggered. Uh huh.

Yeah, it was very significantly exam triggered. It was so bad. It was so spasm that I couldn't even open my jaw.

SHERMAIN [23:02]

I was studying something. God knows what it was. That was an experience I would never want to have again. It sometimes takes about two weeks to recover.

JACKIE [23:14]

The other thing I want to mention it is a self limiting condition. So self limiting means it does so by itself. So if left untreated, it will settle down. But most people don't like that idea of not being able to move their neck with ease. So that's why we commonly see it. It's one of those situations where people ideally prefer to be moving.

SHERMAIN [23:37]

Well, because it feels like a cramp in your neck. And for people who have had cramps before it's I mean, you have you know, you can wake up with cramps in your calves or in your hamstrings, where there's a cramp, literal cramp in your neck, it's the most horrible feeling ever.

JACKIE [23:54]

Oh, I know. I had it last I had it on Sunday. Did you? Yeah. Oh, no. Funny that. It was fan-induced.

SHERMAIN [24:00]

Oh dear.

JACKIE [24:02]

I had a fan on my neck? Oh had a fan, I should say. But I had a, I had a wet compression on my face. So triggered off face and neck, so triggered it off. So my neck gets cold guys very quickly and made that stupid decision to yes put weight in front of the fan and expose that to my neck.

SHERMAIN [24:24]

Well, it was a really hard.

JACKIE [24:26]

Pretty much directing everything of what I say to my patients not to do, I did exactly that.

SHERMAIN [24:32]

It was a very hot day though, suffered the consequences.

JACKIE [24:35]

Moving on from wryneck returning back to what we sort of started on well, I sort of mentioned with the phoremonal part. We also have phoremonal encroachments guys. So this is majority of the time more of a degenerative thing where osteoarthritis is a big player doesn't necessarily have to mean we're talking about osteoarthritis in elderly we're talking about I think I've seen it probably from about the 20-year mark when it comes to the neck within the 20, odd 20 plus is where you start seeing degeneration happening in your neck. So sorry for the youngsters out there where we've you'd all probably got some degeneration in our necks. I know I have apparently my CT has shown it and I know Shermain we discussed that with yours as well in our last podcast as well. So both of us ourselves have some form of degeneration in our cervical spine as well.

SHERMAIN [25:34]

What is yours as a result of I know mine is from trauma. I'm going to say mine mine is external trauma.

JACKIE [25:39]

Mine is external with regards to a couple of whiplash incidences with a couple of.

SHERMAIN [25:45]

Your dad's driving?

JACKIE [25:46]

No this is accident. Okay, accident. I'm going to say the amount of times that I fell off heights when I was little. Yeah, so I had a tendency to stack it from two meters odd. So, we had a slide Dad built us a slide when I was

SHERMAIN [26:03]

A slide is about.

JACKIE [26:04]

Okay, fine. Maybe 1.8 metre high.

SHERMAIN [26:07]

Sorry, I was thinking about two stories high.

JACKIE [26:08]

1.8 to 2 meters high? No, no about two meters or so high, usually from about 1.5 meters to two meters high or two and a half meters. I had a tendency to stack it when I was a little kid. Alright, falling off ,from falling from heights. Mine tended to be slides or bunk beds.

I heard that bunk beds have been the most dangerous things for youngsters.

I swear that I was pushed. I was on my bunk bed so, I swear I was pushed a few times No no, but I still think I was pushed from the slide a few times too.

SHERMAIN

What about swings?

JACKIE [26:49]

No, I was good on the swing. Always have been good on the swings never fell off a swing. Now, it was only the slide that I know I fallen off that one either right from the top when you climb up or I fell as soon as you start like sliding off it, I'd fall off sideways don't ask how. Considering it had a nice guard on the sides of it. I don't know how but I somehow managed to. Well probably because we used to climb the other direction as well, but the only other one was bunk beds so I wouldn't be surprised with the amount of stacking just directly with the heads or running into walls. I had a tendency to, when I was little passed out.

SHERMAIN [27:29]

Passed out. Yeah, first birthday that's called a concussion. yeah first birthday.

I have walked into clear glass doors.

But usually that wasn't usually me. That was Mum. Mum had a tendency to do that and I would probably stand there laughing.

I remember this laughing my head off once, but it was a really strong full whack

I'm surprised that she ricocheted. Oh my god, she could let me ricochet It was great.

SHERMAIN [28:14]

Yeah, I have had a number of that because I was in Taekwondo at the time, and we practiced you know, very fanciful kicks. We think that we are, you know, we are like street fighters right? And we will jump across like stacks of chairs. So jump really high, jump across many boards or jump across people jump across just jumping around a lot.

In the event of practicing you will fall a lot. You get kicked a lot because that's a martial art. And I mean, as a result of cycling, I did a lot of BMX as a child, just doing stunts on bikes and things like that. And I fell a lot, fell into a lot of drains for some reason. It's very rainy in Singapore, right? So it's like and yeah so my neck is, my neck and my thoracic spine is pretty straight. And as a result of that, and the loss of the lordosis and the convex posture of the thoracic spine kyphosis it's called, it doesn't give me a very good, give my neck my head and thorax a very good sense of suspensory support, so to speak.

So and also that came as a overlay of asthma because I'm not able to breathe properly. And a lot of the tension gets trapped in my in my scalenes as mentioned scalenes is one of the big ones and, one of the big muscles that deals with respiratory issues. As per, you know, cervical series one. And that is that forms early degeneration which I am very enthused in reversing right now.

JACKIE [30:25]

Reversing the curve hindering the arthritis, that's right. I was thinking. How do you plan on hindering? How do I plan on hindering? I'm like how did you plan on reversing osteo arthritis without some surgery in there?

SHERMAIN [30:41]

No, what I'm trying to do for those of you who are interested is, to use some I don't know how to pronounce it. Denne Rolls, d e n n e r o l l s.

So it's basically CBP, chiropractic biophysics, which I was really into when I was much younger. I say chiropractic biophysics is all about the mechanics of the spine and the entire skeletal system, utilizing tools and traction materials to create a recurve so to speak. It's not the prettiest of things sometime it looks, it actually looks like a torture chamber. It looks like a torture chamber.

But it's quite the founder of CBP is very mechanical, I think a lot of them came from an engineering background to be honest, and they calculate angles to do the, you know, to the one degree and they use traction materials and they use some specific tables for it too. So that's quite useful at that point in time I thought that was very useful. However, it looks very hard on the body, so I mean for the practitioners? I mean for the or the patient. So that's something that I didn't want to go back. I mean, I didn't want to do too much of it. Well, you did need to have about 20 sessions or something like that. You need to have about 20 sessions, but it's you can be spaced out spaced closely doesn't matter what it is. The change happens quite slowly you see, I remember being traction in my neck at a time and it was still, it was horrible because it induced quite a psychogenic reaction, meaning that I was going to vomit a lot. And I did and so I stopped halfway.

I think CBP has got a bad rap because the majority of people, one practice of waiting lists CBP. So they would have people be on a wait list and they would want them to come about two or three times a week and just adjust them through that without the tractioning exercises, which the founder himself of CBP did not, was not expounding that at all. He was wanting especially for the traction to happen and the exercises to happen just so that because those things create the lasting change.

JACKIE [33:18]

Moving on, we've got our whiplash so we just want to touch base on that with both of us saying we have in some way shape or form experienced whiplash, whether it's through in my case falls in car accidents, in Shermain's case falls and kicks.

So we talked about with whiplash guys it's.

SHERMAIN [33:40]

Fighting really sparring.

JACKIE [33:42]

Or we're talking about in this case, it's the flexion, the hyperflexion extension injury, of where the head gets thrown forcibly forwards and backwards. So most of the time it is associated with a car accident. Most people know about or at least that they're aware of its whole thing is, it's a flexion distraction injury it means that it can happen at any point in time like Shermain said with her kicks with her falls, me with falls as well. We've got being in AFL being tackled is another one where you get thrown somebody's throwing you so you're resistant and your heads being thrown in another direction you've got boxing is a common sport with that. Fighting sports Yep, pretty much most fighting sports that are hand fighting sports, I should say. And hand to head contact sports.

SHERMAIN [34:31]

As long as it's a contact sport whether it's a stand up contact sport or a ground grappling type of sport doesn't matter whether it's Roman Greco wrestling to Judo, Aikido to jujitsu of any origin really and or

things like rossistance doesn't matter what it is. It's as long as you're getting choked and practicing getting choked and practicing and choking someone.

JACKIE [35:04]

Or your neck is being thrown forwards and backwards, that's right.

SHERMAIN [35:08]

As much as you develop a resistance, a tissue resilience to those sports, it's inevitable for you to, for a person to have a lot of neck strain in that area.

JACKIE [35:20]

It's always going to happen if you build up a resilience more often than not, it's not so much that you're building up resilience within tissues itself. It means there's other muscles around it. So lower down, going down into your traps your shoulder muscles, you're probably more likely than not, you're actually bringing them up for yourself to protect it. So you're shortening that space, of your neck being exposed, what part of your neck is exposed for any damage. As well as opposed to just your tissues around the neck itself? Becoming strong and resilient to the trauma itself? I think as well.

SHERMAIN [35:56]

But you know, you're getting kicked around so much that you are disassociated to pain.

And go like, oh, this is just another day at the office or the gym or on the mat.

JACKIE [36:11]

We see a few others too.

SHERMAIN [36:12]

Yep, that's right. Oh, mountain biking.

Alright. Okay, it's the jumping of the head. It's the head bobbing up and down. I see. Yep. That's so that's the Oh, can we make it again? It's just that two-minute pause.

JACKIE [36:40]

Yes, mountain biking. I do agree with it as well.

SHERMAIN [36:42]

Yeah, mountain biking is a big one.

JACKIE [36:45]

We won't delve too much into whiplash for you guys. It's just to tell you that it is a presenting neck issue. Because whiplash in itself will be getting its own series, I believe. Whiplash will be getting its own series so you will have to hold on for that series guys for to get our whole input on what we see and what we work with, with anyone that's presenting with whiplash or its associated conditions, associated disorders. The only other one that we are going to touch base on guys quickly is fractures. And that's Shermain was mentioning, like jaw fractures. So I am going to leave you some because you may have some more experience with this one.

SHERMAIN [37:33]

Jaw fractures mainly I saw a lot when we were working in a VFL. So we had very little soft tissue. In fact, we had no soft tissue injuries in that year. We had a lot of fractures, quite a few of jaw fractures that we have seen, hairline jaw fractures. Full jaw fractures. Yeah, it was horrible.

SHERMAIN [38:04]

And they would have referring jaw pain or trigeminal neuralgia, you know? Yeah. Or maybe sometimes it's simple or maybe could be complex dental work and post dental work they have tried geminal neuralgia things like what's that facial jaw reconstructing? You have a lot of neck issues people think that oh, that's a jaw issue, no the entire neck, jaw, and thorax, your ribcage. Those areas are exactly like whiplash. So when you go to a dentist

JACKIE [38:49]

Find someone that's not going to keep your head knocked back for God knows how long or your mouth ripped apart for again. Opened up one yes opened up why not? That sounds like a zombie movie? They'll do that when you're under. Yeah, they do that when you are under, of course yeah because everything is relaxed. She's talking about general aesthetic really when you're under, under what?

Doing sleep dentistry, sleep dentistry, as they call it okay.

JACKIE [39:22]

Alright, guys. That's it for our second podcast in the series got one more coming up. And that's predominantly about the most common headaches. So until then, guys, if you like what we're presenting, please give us a thumbs up a like or share it with one other person who you think we may be a help. For those of you who are coaches, dancers or athletes, and may find difficulty with expressing or executing movement patterns. Please do connect with us on our website, www.jurmainehealth.com.au and Jurmaine Health is spelled j u r m a i n e h e a l t h. Or please socialize with us on Facebook, which is Jurmaine Health or Instagram which is Jurmaine Health body. And last but not least, since this podcast is made for you, our clients, patients and fans, please do let us know what else you might like to hear about. Guys, that's us for today.

See you, bye.

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Welcome to Jurmaine Health podcast where the Center for brain and body improvement and our team that believes that everyone should live their best life in the best body and with the best brain.

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